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markd35
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2
 
   Posted 9-1-2007 11:32 (GMT +1)    Quote: Novice needing helpAlert an admin about: Novice needing help
 Hi all, I am pretty much a computer novice and my system is running really slow. I dont know how to create a log or anything like that. Can anybody help me in an !!!!!s guide kind of way to a) find out what viruses I have on there b) how do i get rid of them and c) how did I get them in the first place ?
confused
Your help would be very much appreciated
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Touch
Forum Moderator




Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 13597
 
   Posted 9-1-2007 1:42 (GMT +1)    Quote: Novice needing helpAlert an admin about: Novice needing help
Hello smile


Click here - ->>  Before posting a log 
 
 
 After You have run the scan tools -
 
Reboot normally
 
Post Hijackthis log along with AVG Anti-Spyware log, C: Rootlog TXT, C: combofix txt in this topic
 
 



Do NOT post your problem in someone elses thread.
Start a new topic so that it may receive proper attention. 
 

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markd35
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2
 
   Posted 9-1-2007 9:21 (GMT +1)    Quote: Novice needing helpAlert an admin about: Novice needing help
Hi Touch,
 
These are my logs as requested
 
AVG I had already installed and done a system scan, unfortunatly I dont have the log, i did however quarintine the following:
 
Virus Name                                         Path
Virus identified Worm/Spybot..AVN.         C:\WINDOWS\system32\ieservicesupd.exe
Trojan horse Downloader.Generic5.SOA    C:\345634635643.exe
Trojan horse Downloader.Generic5.SOA    C:\syst.exe
Trojan horse Downloader.Generic5.SOA    C:sysxaxm.exe
Trojan horse Generic6.MUL                    C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllh8jkd1q2.exe
Trojan horse Downloader.Generic5.SOA    C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernelwind32.exe
 
 
Hijack This
 
Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2
Scan saved at 20:56:30, on 01/09/2007
Platform: Windows XP  (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2600.0000)
Boot mode: Normal
Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgamsvr.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgupsvc.exe
C:\Program Files\Analog Devices\SoundMAX\SMAgent.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\UAService7.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\System32\atiptaxx.exe
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Album Starter Edition\3.0\Apps\apdproxy.exe
C:\Program Files\Muiltmedia keyboard Utility\1.3\KbdAp32A.exe
C:\Program Files\Browser MOUSE\mouse32a.exe
C:\Program Files\USB Disk Win98 Driver\Res.EXE
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe
C:\Program Files\HP\HP Officejet Pro K550 Series\Toolbox\HPWUTBX.exe
C:\Program Files\QuickTime\qttask.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe
C:\Program Files\Toshiba\Bluetooth Toshiba Stack\TosBtMng.exe
C:\Program Files\NETGEAR\WG511v2\wlancfg5.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wuauclt.exe
C:\Program Files\Toshiba\Bluetooth Toshiba Stack\TosA2dp.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\RealOneMessageCenter.exe
C:\Program Files\Toshiba\Bluetooth Toshiba Stack\TosBtHsp.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wuauclt.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\livecall.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\usnsvc.exe
C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.virginmedia.com/
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyOverride = 127.0.0.1
O2 - BHO: AcroIEHlprObj Class - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 6.0\Reader\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {7E853D72-626A-48EC-A868-BA8D5E23E045} - (no file)
O2 - BHO: Windows Live Toolbar Helper - {BDBD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\msntb.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\msdxm.ocx
O3 - Toolbar: Windows Live Toolbar - {BDAD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\msntb.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ATIModeChange] Ati2mdxx.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AtiPTA] atiptaxx.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Adobe Photo Downloader] "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Album Starter Edition\3.0\Apps\apdproxy.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [FLMK08KB] C:\Program Files\Muiltmedia keyboard Utility\1.3\KbdAp32A.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [FLMOFFICE4DMOUSE] C:\Program Files\Browser MOUSE\mouse32a.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [USB Storage Toolbox] C:\Program Files\USB Disk Win98 Driver\Res.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TkBellExe] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe"  -osboot
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NapsterShell] C:\Program Files\Napster\napster.exe /systray
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [HPWUTOOLBOX] C:\Program Files\HP\HP Officejet Pro K550 Series\Toolbox\HPWUTBX.exe "-i"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Winsock6 MIC driver] IESERVICESUPD.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [QuickTime Task] "C:\Program Files\QuickTime\qttask.exe" -atboottime
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe /STARTUP
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\System32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MsnMsgr] "C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe" /background
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\Run: [AVG7_Run] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgw.exe /RUNONCE (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-20\..\Run: [AVG7_Run] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgw.exe /RUNONCE (User 'NETWORK SERVICE')
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-18\..\Run: [AVG7_Run] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgw.exe /RUNONCE (User 'SYSTEM')
O4 - HKUS\.DEFAULT\..\Run: [AVG7_Run] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgw.exe /RUNONCE (User 'Default user')
O4 - Global Startup: Bluetooth Manager.lnk = ?
O4 - Global Startup: Microsoft Office.lnk = C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office10\OSA.EXE
O4 - Global Startup: NETGEAR Smart Wizard.lnk = ?
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Windows Live Search - res://C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\msntb.dll/search.htm
O8 - Extra context menu item: Add to Windows &Live Favorites - http://favorites.live.com/quickadd.aspx
O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\Office10\EXCEL.EXE/3000
O8 - Extra context menu item: Open in new background tab - res://C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\Components\en-gb\msntabres.dll.mui/229?927f13840a4c459193c6fe0a240f6b85
O8 - Extra context menu item: Open in new foreground tab - res://C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\Components\en-gb\msntabres.dll.mui/230?927f13840a4c459193c6fe0a240f6b85
O16 - DPF: {1D4DB7D2-6EC9-47A3-BD87-1E41684E07BB} - http://ak.exe.imgfarm.com/images/nocache/funwebproducts/ei/WebfettiInitialSetup1.0.0.15-3.cab
O16 - DPF: {56336BCB-3D8A-11D6-A00B-0050DA18DE71} (RdxIE Class) - http://software-dl.real.com/24d8aefecac689326605/netzip/RdxIE601.cab
O23 - Service: AVG7 Alert Manager Server (Avg7Alrt) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgamsvr.exe
O23 - Service: AVG7 Update Service (Avg7UpdSvc) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgupsvc.exe
O23 - Service: InstallDriver Table Manager (IDriverT) - Macrovision Corporation - C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\Driver\11\Intel 32\IDriverT.exe
O23 - Service: SoundMAX Agent Service (SoundMAX Agent Service (default)) - Analog Devices, Inc. - C:\Program Files\Analog Devices\SoundMAX\SMAgent.exe
O23 - Service: SecuROM User Access Service (V7) (UserAccess7) - Unknown owner - C:\WINDOWS\System32\UAService7.exe
--
End of file - 5879 bytes
 
Rootlog
********************************* ROOTCHK-(22-08-07)-LOG, by ejvindh
01/09/2007 15:57:11.66
The rootkits that are detected by this tool were not found.
********************************* ROOTCHK-LOG-end

catchme 0.3.1061 W2K/XP/Vista - rootkit/stealth malware detector by Gmer, http://www.gmer.net
Rootkit scan 2007-09-01 15:57:12
Windows 5.1.2600
scanning hidden processes ...
scanning hidden services & system hive ...
scanning hidden registry entries ...
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reinstall\\xe6H\xf5w\17\xe6\1]
"DisplayName"="\t"
"DeviceDesc"="\t"
"ProviderName"=""
"MFG"="\xf78"
"ReinstallString"="2002, 6.13.10.6095"
"DeviceInstanceIds"=str(7):""
scanning hidden files ...
hidden processes: 0
hidden files: 0
Combo fix Log
 
ComboFix 07-08-30.3 - "mark" 2007-09-01 16:03:43.1 - NTFSx86
Microsoft Windows XP Professional  5.1.2600.0.1252.1.1033.18.99 [GMT 1:00]
 * Created a new restore point

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((   Other Deletions   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\install.dat
C:\Program Files\FunWebProducts
C:\Program Files\FunWebProducts\PopSwatr\History\allowed
C:\Program Files\FunWebProducts\PopSwatr\History\notallow
C:\Program Files\FunWebProducts\ScreenSaver\Images\00258A2F.urr
C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch
C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch\bar\History\search2
C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch\bar\Settings\s_pid.dat
C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch\bar\Settings\setting2.htm
C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch\bar\Settings\settings.dat
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllh8jkd1q5.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllh8jkd1q6.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllh8jkd1q7.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllh8jkd1q8.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\vx.tll

(((((((((((((((((((((((((   Files Created from 2007-08-01 to 2007-09-01  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

2007-09-01 16:02 51,200 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\nircmd.exe
2007-09-01 15:48 <DIR> d-------- C:\Program Files\CCleaner
2007-08-25 13:30 26,920,408 --a------ C:\avg75free_484a1103.exe
2007-08-15 21:23 <DIR> d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\Talkback
2007-08-15 21:21 0 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\nsreg.dat
2007-08-15 19:50 <DIR> d-------- C:\bfu
2007-08-11 21:15 <DIR> d--h----- C:\WINDOWS\system32\GroupPolicy
2007-08-11 20:49 <DIR> d-------- C:\WINDOWS\WLTB Custom Button Feeds
2007-08-11 20:42 <DIR> d-------- C:\WINDOWS\system32\rtnfs.exe, C
2007-08-10 19:49 <DIR> d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\ALLUSE~1\APPLIC~1\NCH Swift Sound
2007-08-10 19:45 <DIR> d-------- C:\Program Files\NCH Swift Sound
2007-08-10 19:45 <DIR> d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\NCH Swift Sound
2007-08-10 18:38 86,016 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\unvise32qt.exe
2007-08-10 18:31 <DIR> d-------- C:\WINDOWS\system32\QuickTime
2007-08-10 18:24 <DIR> d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\ALLUSE~1\APPLIC~1\QuickTime
2007-08-10 18:23 <DIR> d-------- C:\WINDOWS\system32\windows media
2007-08-10 18:21 <DIR> d-------- C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components
2007-08-05 22:39 626,688 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcr80.dll
2007-08-05 22:32 <DIR> d-------- C:\WINDOWS\system32\runtime
2007-08-03 20:58 <DIR> d--h----- C:\WINDOWS\PIF
2007-08-02 19:58 <DIR> d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\ALLUSE~1\APPLIC~1\Azureus
2007-08-02 19:57 <DIR> d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\Azureus
2007-08-02 19:52 <DIR> d-------- C:\Program Files\Azureus

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((   Find3M Report   ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
2007-08-25 14:15 --------- d--h----- C:\Program Files\InstallShield Installation Information
2007-08-25 14:14 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Nokia
2007-08-25 14:08 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield
2007-08-11 20:58 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Common Files\Teleca Shared
2007-08-10 18:39 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\QuickTime
2007-08-10 18:08 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Google
2007-08-08 19:49 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\ALLUSE~1\APPLIC~1\Google
2007-08-06 20:06 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Common Files\Ahead
2007-08-04 21:24 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger
2007-08-04 20:16 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Championship Manager 5
2007-08-04 19:54 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\ALLUSE~1\APPLIC~1\Napster
2007-08-02 19:05 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\Google
2007-07-30 20:30 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\AdobeAUM
2007-07-30 20:29 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\Leadertech
2007-07-30 20:21 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\HP
2007-07-30 19:19 92504 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\cdm.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 549720 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuapi.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 53080 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuauclt.exe
2007-07-30 19:19 43352 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wups2.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 325976 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wucltui.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 271224 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\mucltui.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 207736 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\muweb.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 203096 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuweb.dll
2007-07-30 19:19 1712984 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuaueng.dll
2007-07-30 19:18 33624 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\system32\wups.dll
2007-07-29 21:47 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\MSXML 4.0
2007-07-24 16:22 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\Roxio
2007-07-24 15:51 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar
2007-07-24 15:50 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\ALLUSE~1\APPLIC~1\Windows Live Toolbar
2007-07-24 15:15 --------- d-------- C:\DOCUME~1\mark\APPLIC~1\Real
2007-07-24 15:09 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Common Files\xing shared
2007-07-24 15:09 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real
2007-07-24 15:08 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\Real
2007-07-23 17:43 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\NETGEAR
2007-07-14 07:22 --------- d-------- C:\Program Files\USB Disk Win98 Driver
2006-03-17 11:41 265984 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\inf\WG511v2\WG511v2XP.sys
2006-03-17 11:41 265856 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\inf\WG511v2\WG511v2.sys
2006-03-17 11:41 212992 --a------ C:\WINDOWS\inf\WG511v2\CopyWHQLDriver.exe

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((   Reg Loading Points   ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 
 
*Note* empty entries & legit default entries are not shown
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]
"ATIModeChange"="Ati2mdxx.exe" [2002-05-21 22:20 C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2mdxx.exe]
"AtiPTA"="atiptaxx.exe" [2002-05-21 22:20 C:\WINDOWS\system32\atiptaxx.exe]
"Adobe Photo Downloader"="C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Album Starter Edition\3.0\Apps\apdproxy.exe" [2005-06-06 23:46]
"FLMK08KB"="C:\Program Files\Muiltmedia keyboard Utility\1.3\KbdAp32A.exe" [2007-06-26 22:01]
"FLMOFFICE4DMOUSE"="C:\Program Files\Browser MOUSE\mouse32a.exe" [2007-06-26 22:01]
"USB Storage Toolbox"="C:\Program Files\USB Disk Win98 Driver\Res.EXE" [2005-09-14 20:44]
"TkBellExe"="C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" [2007-07-24 15:08]
"NapsterShell"="C:\Program Files\Napster\napster.exe" []
"HPWUTOOLBOX"="C:\Program Files\HP\HP Officejet Pro K550 Series\Toolbox\HPWUTBX.exe" [2005-09-19 11:31]
"Winsock6 MIC driver"="IESERVICESUPD.EXE" []
"QuickTime Task"="C:\Program Files\QuickTime\qttask.exe" [2007-08-10 18:38]
"AVG7_CC"="C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe" [2007-08-25 13:36]
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]
"ctfmon.exe"="C:\WINDOWS\System32\ctfmon.exe" [2001-10-04 08:13]
"MsnMsgr"="C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.exe" [2007-01-19 12:54]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\policies\explorer]
"NoMSAppLogo5ChannelNotify"=1 (0x1)
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\policies\explorer]
"SpecifyDefaultButtons"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Back"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Forward"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Stop"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Refresh"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Home"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Search"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Favorites"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_History"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Media"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Folders"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Fullscreen"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Tools"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_MailNews"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Size"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Print"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Edit"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Discussions"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Cut"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Copy"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Paste"=1 (0x1)
"Btn_Encoding"=1 (0x1)
R0 tffsport;M-Systems DiskOnChip 2000;C:\WINDOWS\System32\DRIVERS\tffsport.sys
R3 W8335XP;NETGEAR WG511v2 54 Mbps Wireless PC Card for Windows XP (8335);C:\WINDOWS\System32\DRIVERS\WG511v2XP.sys
*Newly Created Service* - CATCHME
Contents of the 'Scheduled Tasks' folder
2007-09-01 14:24:03 C:\WINDOWS\Tasks\Check Updates for Windows Live Toolbar.job - C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\MSNTBUP.EXE
**************************************************************************
catchme 0.3.1061 W2K/XP/Vista - rootkit/stealth malware detector by Gmer, http://www.gmer.net
Rootkit scan 2007-09-01 16:06:00
Windows 5.1.2600  NTFS
scanning hidden processes ...
C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe [1688] 0xFF4ED020

scanning hidden autostart entries ...
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
  Winsock6 MIC driver = IESERVICESUPD.EXE?test?#?????rK-?#?enternot?????Winsock6 MIC driver?????Internetservices?Internetservices???????????mIRC v6.03 
scanning hidden files ...
scan completed successfully
hidden files: 0
**************************************************************************
Completion time: 2007-09-01 16:06:46
C:\ComboFix-quarantined-files.txt ... 2007-09-01 16:06
 --- E O F ---
 
I have noticed by doing this so far my computer seems to be quicker already or is this just my imagination ?
 
Thanks for your help so far.
 
 
 
 
 
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Touch
Forum Moderator




Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 13597
 
   Posted 9-2-2007 4:16 (GMT +1)    Quote: Novice needing helpAlert an admin about: Novice needing help
You were supposed to download and run AVG antispyware
 
 
However You need to update XP
 
Windows Update
An unprotected, unpatched Windows XP installation will get infected within minutes of connecting to the Internet. Because of this, we'll require you to do install critical updates before providing assistance in our forum. If not, we're both just wasting our time.

The first step in this process is to apply Service Pack 1a for Windows XP.
 


Do NOT post your problem in someone elses thread.
Start a new topic so that it may receive proper attention. 
 

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New Topic Post reply to : Novice needing help Printable version of : Novice needing help
 
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